Posted by: nimbu | April 8, 2007

Why would God kill his Son/Himself?

Why would God come to earth under such poor circumstances and be able to perform only simple “miracles”, but couldn’t perform anything significant, like prevent his own death? Over 2000 years ago, mass communication was impossible. Jesus could only communicate to people that were near him. There was no email, television, radio, etc. If he had such an important message to deliver, wouldn’t it be better that he prevented Judas from selling him out? He could’ve lived for decades, preaching and building a Christian state, similar to what Muhammad did.

Plus, I don’t understand the notion that God would sacrifice his own kid…and in such a painful manner. But let’s think about that “painful” part. How long did he suffer? Was it hours, perhaps days? If the crucifixion of Jesus was an actual event, does it accurately represent Jesus taking the heat for the rest of us? I mean, he suffered for a while, but not nearly as long as some children with terminal cancer suffer; some of them suffer for years. In and out of hospitals; massive doses of horrible chemotherapy that pretty much make their lives a living hell.

I know many people with terminal cancer or genetic disorders (CF to be exact). They seem to be in quite a bit of pain for a very long period of time. Their friends and family suffer along with them for years. I’m thinking (perhaps blasphemously) that Jesus’ ordeal wasn’t that great, when compared with someone with inoperable cancer. So what, if the Romans put a crown of thorns on his head. So what if he got whipped and stabbed with swords. It only lasted for a short period of time. If God really wanted his “son” to suffer for the sins of humanity, he would have given him a combination of incurable diseases that slowly and painfully kill them. Now that’s a sacrifice.

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Responses

  1. Check our my latest post
    http://thelamp.wordpress.com/2007/04/08/what-does-god-have-to-say/

  2. nimbu, i’m not sure i understand your post. you question why God would put Christ in the position He did instead of creating a situation where He could share the Christian message with more people. it seems to me the Christian message has continued for centuries and continues being spread around the globe. that Christ’s message continues to be spread is a testament to God’s placing Christ in the situation He did.

    as to your second point, it seems callous. apparently taking on a death you don’t deserve so that others can be saved isn’t good enough?

  3. John,

    It seems inefficient. Why not have your messenger live for decades to effectively deliver the “good news” to as many people as possible? It seems premature to kill him off when only a hand full of people had actually heard his message and were ready to carry it on.

    If your road to salvation begins with Jesus, then it seems a waste that more people couldn’t hear this message while he was alive. Secondly, if you’re a hard-line Christian, then you believe the ONLY road to salvation is Christ, then it’s an even larger tragedy: there were billions of people that didn’t hear his message. Not because they didn’t want to hear it, but rather they couldn’t! There were millions/billions here in North and South America (before it was known as America); there were billions across Asia that couldn’t hear the message. Let’s not forget about the billions across all of Africa.

  4. nimbu,

    Check out this blog of mine. I linked to a great cartoon on this subject:

    Redemption

    aA

  5. Thanks dude – that’s too funny! I love it.

  6. How could you compare Jesus’ death to the deaths of cancer patients? He took on the sin of the entire world. Just imagine how much weight that is to carry, all the sin of every person, past, present , and future. And you think that even remotely compares to any one person’s slow death on Earth?

    Also, Jesus’ miracles. He performed hundreds of miracles. Why didn’t He save Himself from death? Beacause He had to save the world. He had to die in order to be resurrected back to life. That was kinda the whole purpose of Him coming to earth. To die for our sins.

    And about how He died. You say that God should have given incurable diseases. Well, how He actually suffered is beside the point. Don’t you realize that He CHOSE to die for us? And the cancer patients did not chose to die, much less so another person could live.

  7. Your circular logic confuses me. I don’t understand the need to create oneself in human form just kill himself off to forgive his own creation for sins he created. Wouldn’t it have been easier simply to forgive the sins? What’s with the “show”? Plus, wouldn’t it make more sense to recreate yourself now (i.e. God) in the time of the internet and YouTube, so that people could actually witness this “miracle”?

    I have to trust some book that was written in fragmented chapters decades after his death. Don’t you have any concern as to the accuracy of any one person’s memory? I understand that Jesus’ followers were a worthy bunch, but come on; do you really think that anybody could remember with any sense of accuracy events that took place 40+ years ago?

    Imagine that you had to write about Martin Luther King Jr.’s civil rights movements, but were given no written documentation, or video, or audio. The only source you have are people that were alive around his time and witnessed what he did. I’m not comparing Martin Luther King Jr. to Jesus, I’m simply trying to explain how hard it is to write about events that took place decades before.

    I find it awfully convenient that people use circular logic to justify anything. For example, if I were to believe that Zeus (the Greek god) also existed centuries before Christ and also died for your sins, what would you say? There’s plenty of documentation, stories and legends of the Mighty Zeus. You (and many religious people) find it so easy categorize one story as myth and another as fact.

    I too find it quite easy to categorize all religious beliefs as mythology.

  8. Okay, the first question of God forgiving our sins. He cannot do that if He is a just God. That’s like you killing someone and going to court and saying you are sorry. The judge, if he’s a just and rightoeus judge, would not say, “Okay, I forgive you.” God can’t do that. He had to have a mediator. He had to have a completely sinless person die take on the sins of others in order to save them. That person was Jesus.

    Next, on the accuracy of the Bible. Yes, the Gospels of Matthew, mark, Luke and John were written some forty or so years after Jesus’ death. But they were written in the time that all the people who witnessed Jesus’ miracles and and Jesus’ death and His resurrection, were still alive. So don’t you think they would have said something if it was inaccurate?

    Why do I believe that Jesus died for my sins and notZeus? Well, the Old Testament of the Bible was written way before Jesus was born. There are several prophecies concerning the Savior who would come to Earth and save people from their sins. Jesus completed every single one. So you say, can’t someone read the Bible and try to complete all of the prophecies? One was to be from the lineage of David. Can someone choose that? No. Another was to be of virgin birth. Do you see my point?

    I leave you with this. All other kings want people to give up their own lives for them. Jesus gave up His own life for us.

    Also, all other religions believe that you must commit good works to reach heaven or enlightenment. Christianity is the only religion in which all you have to do is believe.

  9. You continue to confuse me. In your first paragraph, you state that God cannot forgive because of justice. In your last paragraph you state that Christianity is the only religion in which all you have to do is believe. By that philosophy, I can indeed kill someone and as long as I simply “believe”, God’s ok with it. Isn’t that the same as saying “I’m sorry”?

    I’m confused.

    You also said that Jesus died for our sins; then why am I measured at all? I can be entirely sinful without fear of any consequences – which by the way, makes the whole concept of hell useless.

  10. One more note: It appears that you belong to the religion that feels that even the most righteous person of the Hindu faith cannot get into heaven; because good deeds alone cannot get into heaven, as you stated. I assume that includes people like Gandhi. If your heaven existed, it would be a shame that somebody as “good” as Gandhi cannot get into your social club in the clouds.

  11. You are correct. I believe that even Gandhi cannot get into heaven because he SINNED. That’s all there is to it. No sin in heaven. If you have ever sinned, you cannot get into heaven.

    Unless…you have a mediator. Jesus takes on our sins. We no longer have to carry the weight of our sins and we become perfect in Jesus Christ. That is how we get into heaven because it is as our sins never happened. They are completely washed away.

    All we have to do is believe this as I said. But…if we come into a relationship with Jesus, we realize we would not have eternal life without Him. This is what makes us turn our lives around and choose to follow Him. He saved us from death, so the least we can do is serve Him. So yes, if you murder someone and then you come to know Jesus, you will be forgiven in the sense that the sin goes away.

    Just a side note: All sins are equal to God. So murder is the same as lying or lusting in God’s eyes.

    Lastly, I never said God is ok with any kind of sin. He hates sin. That’s why He cannot allow anyone with sin into heaven, no matter how “good” anyone thiks they are.

    So yes, God can forgive anyone of even the worst possible sin. But no, He cannot allow anyone with the least of sins into heaven.

  12. Wow.

  13. Im with Nimbu on this one. How can all such religions be so blind and or naive to believe that only they know the true way to eternal happiness. Not to mention Christianity is one of the youngest religions, and yet they feel to dismiss such other religions as Islam, Buddhist, Taoism..

    And quite honestly, if I stepped on an ant by accident and therefore killed it (which would be a sin), do i REALLY wanna be in a social circle that wont let me in the “VIP Room” because of so?

    Have fun believing in the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause why your at it. Meanwhile, ill put faith where it belongs..In myself, my friends, my family and my species….

  14. word.

  15. Sehr wertvolle Informationen! Empfehlen!

  16. I was baptised as a Baptist at 6 years years old, my father took me to church, I was taught all this stuff that was to make me pure. I am now 78 years old, and it is all bullshit, Religion was created by MAN, The BIBLE was written by MAN,
    I have learned that ALL religions was created by MAN, in an attempt to control. Man, What Father woukd Kill his on son to “SAVE” the world DaDa Stupid!!!!
    Thanks John

  17. Nimbu- your a fucking idiot.


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