Posted by: nimbu | January 17, 2007

My Religion is Better than Yours!

I’m getting tired of people preaching that Christianity is the nicest religion while Islam is the worst. Obviously, nobody wants to believe that their religion could ever preach anything but peace. But let’s study the Bible and the Quran carefully. Both are filled with hatred and instructions to kill infidels, homosexuals and most importantly, disobedient children (Deuteronomy, 21:18-21). Let’s not forget the most recent genocide where Serb “Christians” systematically murdered unarmed Muslim civilians. Let’s not forget when Israel killed hundreds of Muslim civilians in Lebanon because of 2 kidnapped soldiers. No religion is free from atrocities. Well, maybe Buddhists.

Every culture has had its moments when their leaders twisted the words of the Bible and Quran to fit their agendas. When you dehumanize your enemy, anything is possible.

That’s why I’m an Atheist.

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Responses

  1. Nice title, you’ll get lot of examples supporting. Getting popular lately.
    Whenever someone argues or complaints about a religion I ask them “are you trying to prove … My sh** smells better than your sh**? “

  2. Are you an Atheist based on other people actions or by personal conviction??

  3. What makes you think Christians started this ridiculous argument of “My religion is better than yours?” Soon after 9/11/01, I came to the Internet to try to find out what Islam was all about. I went to the Islamic message boards. I wish you could have seen what I saw at that time. There was no being nice to these people unless you were a Muslim, too. They constantly put down Christianity, from the Crusades thru today, as other Americans & Europes saw, too, that had the same idea as I had. I watched westerners come one by one, all trying to be nice at first, then none ending up being nice no matter how hard they tried. These Muslims even had atheists taking up for Christianity. I went to “google” to do a search so I could answer to some of their accusations about Christianity. I found tons of Muslim websites putting Christianity down, but I only found two Christian websites that were saying anything at all about Islam/Muslims, and they were only answering the accusations. I could believe it! I thought, where are all of the Christian websites accusing Islam/Muslims of bad things as they are accusing Christianity of? As time went on, the Christian sites I was looking for began to pop up one by one. I went to the Christian message boards, trying to get Christians to come to the Islamic message boards I was on just to answer the questions that I could not answer but just knew had to be out there. They all refused, saying we did not have to get into arguments such as these. You see Christians arguing with Muslims today, but it is certainly far from being all Christians, or even most. It was mostly atheists that were arguing with them, but because they were from the west, Muslims automatically called them Christians. When people are putting down, though, something so near and dear to you, it is only natural that you take up for whatever it is. Muslims in the Muslim world have hated Christians for many, many years. In one of Mark Twain’s writings, he talks about visiting the holy lands and how the Muslims hated them. Jefferson and Adams went to London to meet a leader of the Arab Muslim world to try to get them to stop stealing from American ships. When they asked why Muslims did this to American boats, they were told that Muslims hated them because they were Christians & their religion told them to fight and kill them wherever they saw them. So, this is no recent attitude. Of course not all Muslims are like this, but I guarantee that almost all of them in the Muslim world have the very same attitude bin Laden and other terrorists have. This was shown by a poll done on Muslims in the Muslim world and bin Laden was their highest hero.

    After years of studying Muslims/Islam, there is no doubt about it, the majority of Muslims actually do believe they are to take over and rule the world with Islam. Some believe they are to take over the world by fighting, some believe they are to take over the world peacefully. I didn’t think they had a chance, though, when you consider all those that would be against them. Then the atheists/gays started coming out actually taking up for Islam/Muslims and putting down Christianity/Christians. I could not believe it! An overwhelming number of Muslim extremists/terrorists have pointed me in the direction of many atheist/gay websites. The atheists/gays have really helped them in their propaganda war. And why? Because gays are furious at Christians for being against their marriage law when it isn’t really even a religious matter. This has more to do with the fact that most Americans are not used to the gay community b/c most of them live in the cities. People are always against what is new to them. I would have guessed, though, that the majority of Americans would have accepted the gay community within the next few years. Now, when American Christians, which are 85% of America’s population, find out that it is the gay community who has launched this war on Christians/Christianity in America, I am thinking they may never accept the gay community. They have divided this country at a time we needed to be united. That’s going to be very hard to forgive, not to mention all they have said about their faith, which is worse than talking bad about ones mother/father.

    Do not fall for that – look at what all Christians have done in the past pathetic argument. The crusades were b/c Muslims stole Christian land and the inquisition was for the very same reason. Christians in America have been very peaceful for a very long time now. Muslims are fighting in about 20 of the 22 armed conflicts in the world. They are fighting in or being violent & killing in Sudan, Somalia, Bangladesh, Kashmir, Chechnya, the Philippines, Thialand, Nigeria, Algeria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Indonesia, and in almost every other country they are at least 10% of the population. They are now injuring at least 14 French policeman every day in France, they are burning their buses, stealing from passengers on trains, etc. In Sweden, Muslims have already taken over their 3rd largest city and the Swedes are moving out of their country “in droves” according to a Swedish newspaper. In Denmark, France, Germany, etc., Muslims are gang raping girls wearing makeup, going out on dates, not wearing a veil, etc, in certain places every single day. For the first time in history, more Europeans are moving from their countries than people are moving in. A report I read said that in just a few years, Muslim children will be the majority in some European countries. One gay European who was leaving his country said that he was good at living freely, but he would not be good at fighting for that freedom. That’s very sad, I think. With the European wimps just moving out of their countries and being too wimpy to fight for their freedoms and their countries, where does that leave the USA? Well, thankfully, we do not have near as many wimps here as they have there, even though our wimps are helping Muslim extremists win their propaganda war. But with Muslims ruling Europe, Asia and the Middle East, we really do not have a great chance.

    I wish that I could tell you and all Americans and Europeans everything I have learned by reading about this stuff for at least 5 hours per day since shortly after 9/11/01, but it would take forever to write it all down here. Even if you do not believe what I say, at least go and read, read, read, and educate yourself as to what all is happening in the world right now. Educate yourself as to how Muslim extremists/terrorists believe and why they believe as they do. Muslims are using some of the very same propaganda tactics Hitler used, so be careful not to fall for all of the propaganda going around right now as so many others are. If there are any Christians in the USA that want our freedoms taken from us and/or want religious mixed in with our government now, there are very, very few. Almost all Christians do not want religion mixed with our government and they want everyone to have their freedoms. Do not forget that 85% of Americans claim to be Christians. If Christians wanted to take over the government, they could easily do so. This is simply not what Christians want. You can never separate religion and politics, but you can separate religion and government. People are getting the two mixed up. There has never been a separation of religion and politics and there never could be. Christians have just as much of a right to believe as they choose as anyone else does; therefore, they can state those feelings to their congressmen/women. I hope I explained that so it is easily understood. Some of these people are actually trying to say that Christians have no right to speak what they are for or against. These would be some of the atheist/gay communities. But that is trying to make this country into a dictatorship and taking their freedom of speech away from them. I can’t help but wonder what happened to the America I always knew and loved, where people were like, “Hey, I may not believe as you do, but I will fight to my death to make sure you have a right to state what you believe.”

  4. Wow. First off – thanks for LONG response. Secondly, you should first read a little more about a person’s blog before commenting on a single entry. If you had done so, it could’ve saved you precious minutes/hours typing. I kind of agree with you on some levels. But your whole notion that Muslims “stole” lands that belonged to Christians is the crux of much of my argument that all religions are bad. How can 3 religions claim the same land? It will NEVER work out. The “holy land” has been the source of so much pain and suffering.

    Thirdly, stop watching Fox News. There’s no “WAR ON CHRISTMAS”, especially not one that was started by the “gay/atheists”. Funny how you lumped me in with homosexuality with a single “/”.

    Be careful of alarmist thinking and stop searching the Internet for all that is negative in a religion; you’ll find plenty of web sites out there that bash the other religion.

  5. tonykuper: Are you an Atheist based on other people actions or by personal conviction??

    Both. People actions inspired me to do a little reading. It is there that I found “justification” for the people actions. Once I started really looking under the hoods (Islam and Christianity), I found plenty of stuff that was just wrong. By wrong, I mean stuff like slavery, unusual punishments for petty “crimes”. For example, I don’t think that anybody deserves death because they worship something other than (fill in the blank). But both books have text that state that unbelievers are worthy of death.

    So, today I am an Atheist because of both personal conviction and because of the Evil That Men Do.

  6. The crusades were b/c Muslims stole Christian land and the inquisition was for the very same reason.

    Both Muslims and Christians wanted the land, and none of them had any more right to it than any other. The crusades was a religious war, and one in which both sides had guilt. The Iraq war and the parody called “The War on Terror” are the same. They’re rooted in religion, and both sides are guilty.

    As for the inquisition, it has nothing to do with Muslims stealing land. That is totally irrelevant bullshit. The Church prosecuted people who disagreed with them, threatened their position in society (at a time when the Church was the most powerful actor in European politics) or generally satisfied their prejudices.

    In Sweden, Muslims have already taken over their 3rd largest city and the Swedes are moving out of their country “in droves” according to a Swedish newspaper.

    This is untrue. I live in Norway, neighbour country of Sweden, and read Swedish perfectly well, and I’ve heard of no such thing.

    Muslims are using some of the very same propaganda tactics Hitler used

    Holier than thou, eh? This could be considered anti-muslim propaganda. It certainly generalizes heavily about a certain, very large group with no justification.

    You can never separate religion and politics, but you can separate religion and government. People are getting the two mixed up. There has never been a separation of religion and politics and there never could be.

    Religion has no more to do with politics than, say, alcohol. Unless the political case in point is about alcohol, alcohol is irrelevant to politics. That’s how it should be with religion, too, although it seems like there will never be any real seperation of the two in practice. Religion should not have any significance in cases not related to religion.

  7. Thanks Simen.

    It’s easy to never do your own research and to simply rely on others to tell you. Many people don’t know what the Crusades were all about and even fewer know what the Spanish Inquisition was all about.

    Personally, it’s the first I’ve heard of the Inquisition as a method for taking back land that Muslims stole from the Spaniards. I guess it’s a mechanism for relieving some guilt over the Church sponsored torturing and killing of all non-believers. But like I said…nobody wants to believe that their history has dark moments. Every religion does.

    Everybody thinks that Islam is the only religion spread by the sword. People forget about how the original Catholic Church persecuted non-believers and often had them killed by mobs. Non-Christians were often labeled as heretics, witches, etc. Once you’ve convinced everybody that non-believers are not human, people do vicious things in the name of their religion. Just like many people converted to Islam on their own free will, many were pressured by family, neighbors, society, and the sword. The same happened with Christianity. I just wish people would read a book – other than the Quran or Bible.

  8. Actually, the crusades were against both Muslims and Christians. The Roman Catholic Church burned Christians at the stake who preach the Bible in its true state and believed that everyone had a right to have a bible and read it for themselves. Because the Catholic Church is no where near what the Bible would describe as church. You have to be careful to clump all faiths that claim to be Christian…because they are not all the same. That really does an injustice to society because it does nothing more than confuse those who are already confused.
    I apologize but I am unable tonight to respond in full….I will get back to this soon…..but one quick last thought…whether your are an Atheist, Muslim, Christian, Jew….or whatever else…you are still a human being who is not perfect and capable of making mistakes. So while some people claim war based on thier faith and some claim war just for wars sake, doesn’t mean a faith is incorrect. When I respond back i will share some facts as well as Church history that will make some sense out of it all. That is if your willing to hear it. I would be cautious when using others actions to declare whether God exists or not…I could show you Gods love through a caring Christian for every wrong action you have witnessed or read about. What about those who obey God do you discount all those people.

  9. A quick reply to this statement made by:Simen Says:

    “Religion has no more to do with politics than, say, alcohol. Unless the political case in point is about alcohol, alcohol is irrelevant to politics. That’s how it should be with religion, too, although it seems like there will never be any real seperation of the two in practice. Religion should not have any significance in cases not related to religion.”

    I am a Christian…an independent, fundamental baptist. I have a set of beliefs, as we all do, whether you believe in God or not. If they are my beliefs than I should live by them or else I am living a lie and you would call me a hypocrite. Faith encompasses your whole life, it is not just a Sunday or Holiday thing…it is much bigger than that. Every aspect of your life should be lived with your beliefs as the core and then you should have a set of principles based on those beliefs. In my case that would be Gods word. So when politicians violate Gods word or would cause me to, I cannot be for them on that issue. I would be a hypocrite. There are no issues in life that do not directly correlate to ones faith…even if you do not have one.

  10. tonykuper:

    What you perceive as God’s word is different than what others would perceive as God’s words. The problem is that everybody claims to “know” God’s words. Which one is right? Your blog is entitled “on the right side” – am I to assume that your God’s words are right(er)?

    That’s why we have a separation of Church and State. Because our founding fathers had seen what a religious rule could be like: they escaped from it! They certainly wouldn’t invite it upon themselves again.

    When you base your life on the good words in the books, I don’t have a problem with it. And nobody would, because good things are universal. However, when one group’s religious beliefs condemns an entire segment of the population (such as homosexuals) to being second class citizens and builds laws to keep them down, that’s when I have a problem. When governments make decisions based on religious doctrine that I don’t agree with, that’s when I have a problem.

    A secular society is the only way.

    We encourage it in other countries; after all that’s what we want in the middle east right? It would be hypocritical for the U.S. government to be ruled by religion, when we hate it when other countries are ruled by their religions. It’s that superiority complex that’s troubling. Because Christians believe that it’s OK if the U.S. is run by religious people, because they belong to my church. A religious government here in the U.S. would be ultimately hypocritical. If you believe otherwise, then we’d have to convert everybody in the world to Baptists. That way, there’s no other religion or minority religions to oppress; everybody believes in the same thing.

  11. Just came across your blog, and it seems that you have a lot of intelligent, thoughtful things to say!

    My shoes are better than yours!

  12. Thanks, Chickpea!

  13. Nimbu,

    You commented on my site (Things Not Seen) the other day. I responded to your reply, and then later saw this post.

    So, since your post and my reply, feed off one another. I thought I would place that reply here too. Besides, I was sure if you had returned to read my response to your comments.

    Thanks! My response begins here:

    Nimbu,

    Thank you for your comments on Keith Ellison, the Quran, and Thomas Jefferson.

    I agree with you that no religion is free from atrocities and they can be twisted to fulfill a hateful agenda.

    But, we must understand the true difference between Islam and Christianity. Islam’s primary means of propagation as defined by the Quran is conquest. Although many have claimed Christ and his Church to be their inspiration, these born no true evidence of being followers of Christ.

    True followers of Christ follow His teaching, “Love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:34-35

    No other religion teaches of a God who was willing to die to take the punishment we each deserved. God demonstrated His love for us by sending Jesus to die for us. In other religions, the person has to live a life of good works to “earn” paradise. Christianity claims that salvation is God’s act from first to last.

    In my article above, I was not claiming Christianity as superior. I only wanted to point out the hypocrisy of tolerating one religion over and against another.

    I do believe that Christians do have the truth, and that other religions have partial truth, but not enough to gain them salvation.

    Nimbu, one other thing you spoke of was that Christians were at war against “science, evolution, and homosexuals.” But honestly, if we are at war against these things, then it is still a peaceful war. It is a cultural war. But it is not a war which untilizes guns or bombs. It is a war of ideas. And when all is said and done, Christians will not have attempted to physically destroy another life. We respect all life.

    Again Nimbu, thank you for commenting. I pray that I have not hurt you with my words.

    I would like to leave you with one thought. I can tell by your response that you either don’t believe in God or you just don’t care. But there does seem to be some part of you that cares enough to read, investigate, and to comment on articles like mine.

    This shows me that even though you don’t believe in God, God believes in you. I know this because there is no other way you could have any interest in spiritual matters unless God gave you a desire to seek Him out.

    I pray that you will find what you are looking for. I pray that you can find Christ. The real Christ. Not the Christ that people have taken and used for their own gain, but the Christ that says in John 10:11-15

    11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me– 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father–and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    Nimbu, Jesus knows His sheep, and they will hear Him and follow Him. He is the good shepherd. He loves you, and He laid down His life for you.

    God’s Peace be with you,

    Taylor

    p.s. – Let me know if you would like to talk more. I would be very open to more dialogue.

  14. Taylor:

    Thanks for you thoughts. I think I’m far past being “saved” by any faith at this point. Not because I’m an angry, bitter atheist – I’m not – but because I could not find an authoritative scripture.

    It’s clear to me, after reading the Bible and the Quran, that there are bits and pieces of it that are good and others that are bad. If I have to pick through these books to identify which I believe and which I don’t, then what good is scripture?

    The fact remains that there is no book written by God – all are written by men and therefore subject to criticism. I certainly don’t buy the argument that God spoke through a human writing instrument.

    There are far too many contradictions and outdated philosophies in both religions that I’ve studied, namely Islam and Christianity. As soon as you find one thing in any of the books that are theoretically written by God that is unacceptable, then the rest of the book has to undergo the same scrutiny and criticism.

    A number of things led me away from the religions of Abraham: One was the clear promotion of slavery. The God of Abraham never, ever tells you to not have slaves. He simply tells you how to treat them. The Bible and the Old Testament are filled with archaic and brutal punishments for things that would never stand in our court system.

    Imagine this: You have your son killed by the town elders for not obeying you and for being a drunkard. Your defense is the Old Testament? Wrong. You’d most certainly go to either jail or the mental hospital. This is clearly outlined in Deuteronomy:

    18: “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them,
    19: then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives,
    20: and they shall say to the elders of his city, `This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’
    21: Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
    22: “And if a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree,
    23: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is accursed by God; you shall not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance.

    It’s in the Bible!!!

  15. You know this is what I hate… people can’t let other people believe. Throwing religious verses around at someone doesn’t help an arguement. How many times can I quote an individual giving me something from the Bible when I argue religion. Ummm, sorry I’m Jewish you have to do better than quoting the book of Revelation or whatnot.

    I just wanted to point something out here mate, you can be atheist it’s alright with me. Just don’t get a sour taste about Jews, we don’t want to convert you, we don’t care what you do. Our tradition teaches us that: “God said to Moses: Is there anyone whom I do not respect? Whether it be Israelite or Gentile, man or woman, slave or handmaid, whoever does a good deed, shall find the reward at its side.”

    That means we’re on your side. Heck, at times Judaism even promotes atheism.

    I’m blogging about how hard it is being a non-Christian on my site, http://abroch.wordpress.com, even “religious” people are feeling you.

  16. Dear visitor, (Jewish Thinker)

    You have visited my site, therefore you have every right to leave it. I don’t do any religions any favors. I think all religions are equally warped. I quote scripture because the scripture is simply wrong. Religious people get angry when I quote scripture because there’s no defense of such outrageous things. If I made comments without scripture as a guide, you’d say I was full of it.

    The fact remains that the Old Testament, the New Testament, along with the Quran are full of nonsense. If you cannot defend a quotation from your scripture, you’re more than welcome to visit a more hugs-n-kisses blog. There’s plenty of them out there…but this one’s mine.

    I simply want to challenge myself and anybody else who happens upon my blog. If you’ve got an explanation for the Deuteronomy quote, I’d be happy to hear it.

  17. Friend,
    I will have to spend a little time at your blog, as you seem fairly level headed in the responses you leave. DebinUSA kind of left me laughing, though… 5 hours a day? She could use some Vitamin D…

    Here is the point I would like to make: it is a mistake when people make inferences about faith-convictions based on the conduct of a minority of its adherents. One needs to stop throwing the word religion around and start understanding worldviews. This is why I am a follower of Christ, since the Worldview that I share with Christ is the best inference of scientific, analytical, and philosophical evidence we have available. Of course, you and others may scoff; my response is, as an atheist, you claim (by the very definition of the word) that you have proven God does not exist. Well, I would like to see some findings to that effect.
    We are talking about existential and experiential Reality here. Not preference.

    Muslims call themselves peaceful, and then I open their book and they are violent by command. The dubious way their prophet rec’d their text is another hogwash. That religion is logically falsifiable.
    Same with Buddhism, Hinduism, Pantheism, Panentheism, etc. etc. etc. These are all logically falsifiable.

    One is left, after a rigorous pursuit of the evidence of Reality, with a Monotheistic situation. This is simply using Classical Philosophy and Greek Wisdom, mind you. There are three monotheistic faiths, and two (Islam and Christianity) directly contradict one another, allowing the seeker of wisdom to discard Islam (reason? Qu’ran claims that Christ never died on a Cross… history just proved it wrong.)
    It is a fact (save for the very fringe scientist/experts, and one could get an expert to ‘prove’ anything they wanted) that, based on historical and corroborative evidence:
    Jesus of Nazareth was a real man.
    He died on a Roman Cross.
    The tomb was later empty.

    Of course, you may claim that the New Testament is false. Yet it is a reliable account of history, again corroborated with other primary sources. The amount of manuscript evidence is astounding, all 99.4% in agreement, dating back to the first and second century C.E. Over 25,000 of them.

    One should be careful when claiming falsehoods on how faith-adherents conduct themselves. By that logic, Atheists are all evil people since Lenin, Stalin, Mao were atheists and hundreds of millions of people have been murdered by their orders.
    Truly, more good has come out of followers of the Way then evil.


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